Episode 42 Transcript

Welcome to Episode 42 of the Business in
Morocco Podcast this week we're gonna be
talking about job interview tactics and
this is part one where we're going to be
focusing on recruiters HR managers those
who are conducting the interviews before
we get to our topic for the day Ryan how
are you what's new? all right I'm doing
well for my update today I just want to
talk a little bit about some customer
service experiences I've had this week I
had a very good interaction with a local
printer I wanted to get some business
cards printed and some other documents
and high-resolution photos I went in I
took a thumb drive with everything
digitally all the documents in digital
form I handed it over they used a very
nice Apple computer and software to
improve the quality of the images and to
build the business cards so they look
nice they printed everything out there
are a few things that I need to printed
that took a long time because they were
so high resolution so I left, they did
the work that called me when it was done
I came back I picked it up and at the
same time I realized they were doing
high quality service so I asked them to
print out some photos of my family to
get framed and when I was ready to check
out they just gave me the photos of my
family for free. Wow I went in they
improve the quality of the images and
documents I had that produced a high
quality product on time and then when it
was all said and done they gave me
something for free
well that immediately made me think wow
what can I do for them so I noticed that
they were not on Google Maps so I have
decided that I'm just going to help them
add their business to Google Maps and
help them create a good presence
online because clearly they're a
business that more she people should
know about and I want to help them get
more customers so next week I'm gonna go
back and help them do that, that's cool
so that was a great experience I also
have it in my mind that I want to do a
partnership with them knowing that small
businesses use flyers and other kinds of
printed materials for promotions it's
very popular here in Morocco I want to
partner with them to sell online
marketing services to some of their
customers so essentially when someone
comes in who owns a small business that
printer can offer website services, or
Facebook services, Google, Instagram all
of those, and I'll have a partnership
with them and offer them a commission
every time you know they they help me
get new business yeah so I'm hoping to
get that arranged next week so that was
a good experience and then if that's
successful you can approach every print
shop in the city yeah I'd really like to
have other people working to find
clients for me yeah that would be ideal
because if you're not moving forward
you're moving backwards so you want as
many people out there working for you
and trying to help your business as
possible and I'm happy to give them the
proper incentive to do that yeah so for
our listeners take note of this what
Ryan is sharing is a principle that can be
applied in other industries as well when
he says he wants other people furthering
his business they're not just doing it
for free they're doing it because they
have a vested interest in it, it's
looking for ways that your interests are
aligned with theirs so it's a it's a
win-win Ryan recognized that this print
shop has potential customers for me
people that are coming and printing
Flyers are trying to market their
business but they may be doing it in a
limited number of ways or in ways and
methods that are quite outdated and not
capitalizing on on the Internet and this
print shop may not be equipped to offer
that service but if they're getting a
commission they would be motivated to
offer that service in addition to the
Flyers to these customers that are come
and so it's it's a win-win the print
shop wins through the Commission and
Ryan wins through having qualified
customers coming into his business yeah
it always helps up when you have someone
giving you a positive reference so if
there's a customer who has trust with
the printer then if the printer
recommends my services to them you're
already halfway there right because you
have the trust and the confidence so
that was a great customer experience and
on the other hands on the other side of
the spectrum I ordered some furniture
from a large big brand furniture shop
here in Morocco and it arrived today and
unfortunately it was wrong so I thought
I was ordering four chairs, two are
correct and two were not correct it's
disappointing frustrating because I have
specifically showed pictures of the
products to the sales rep in the store I
said this is the chair I want here's the
name unfortunately I didn't understand
the naming convention of the product on
their receipt or their facture, apparently
he ordered something else that showed up
and so that is a bad customer experience
and then after it was all assembled and
delivered I come to find out that not
all the pieces are there for all the
chairs so it just leaves a bad taste in
your mouth and it doesn't make me highly
motivated to do business with them again
mm-hmm now on the bright side they were
able to find my office and they were
using Google Maps and they did speak
French hmm so it wasn't all bad right as
we've mentioned the challenges of
delivery here Morocco sometimes, he
specifically asked for the location
services and whatsapp and then was able
to to get here in spite of the fact that
the road for the building is closed
because a giant hole opened up in the
road and a dump truck fell down into it yes maybe
we could put a couple photos in the show
notes of that because it's worth looking
yeah this is great if you've ever seen a
sinkhole before basically there was
water underneath the road and the the
ground soil had washed away and the only
thing left was the asphalt on top and
yesterday was the day when a big enough
and heavy enough truck came along to
just sink right down through the ground
and spilled tons of concrete onto a
parked car crushing it that's right I
think at least one car was totaled in
the incident and I'm sure that that dump
truck is gonna need a lot of repairs
yeah oh man I got to hand it to them
though they've got excavators out there
like they are reacting pretty fast
yeah I've been impressed with the
response Lydec and the police and
these other folks that are out there
rebuilding the road they're working hard
in there they're getting it done now
this is a very busy intersection yeah
tens of thousands of cars every day go
through this intersection yeah so they
need to get it repaired quickly
hopefully by Monday it'll all be
rectified but other than that just want
to mention again that the first meeting
of the entrepreneurs Club of Casablanca
will be on December 6th and if you are
an approved applicant I look forward to
see you there
if you are new listener to the program
and you want to join the club send an
email to Ryan@Moroccopodcast.com and
we'll tell you how to apply for the club
what about you Ryan you got any updates
for this week? I'm just continuing to
move forward after my last workshop
gonna schedule another one in January
I'll give a more detailed update in a in
a future episode of how that all broke
down and the process I'm working to
build something longer-term but yeah
teaching classes helping my students
improve their time management through an
assignment this is something I'd
recommend for anybody to do even if
you're not getting graded for it to
improve your personal effectiveness and
it's to track your time for
one week so the students have to write
down everything they do every 30
minutes 30 minute time blocks for 7 days
and also track their phone usage and
then analyze that data and write a short
report for ways they can become more
effective the reason why I do this is
because it's often shocking where your
time goes and how much time is wasted
and spent on things that just aren't
aligned with what you truly care about
and don't bring you closer to the life
you desire so it can be very very
revealing and people have revelations
and make big changes in their life so
even if you're not in my class and this
is an assignment I recommend it
can you remind us where you teach it now
I'm teaching at SIST British University
and they have three locations actually
Casa, Rabat, and Tangier so on Mondays
with the new high-speed train I go up to
Rabat teach a two-hour class hop on the
train up to Tangier teach - 2 two hour
classes I have dinner with some friends
and I'm back that same day so wow that's
a long day it's a long it's a very very
long day but it's it's doable with the
with the TJV, let's get into the topic of
the day which is job interview tactics
now I've been on both sides of this I've
been interviewed for jobs many times and
I have interviewed people for employment
as well as a manager and also more and
more recently as the owner of my company
here in Casablanca
so I think the goal of this episode is
to really share tips for interviews in
order to help people find the right job
and help employers find the right person
to fill the job that they
in their company I want to start with
some goals for the employer meaning some
tactics some methods or habits that
employers can use to find the right
person for the right job that will last
in the position because as an employer
the reason that this process is often
difficult and painful for everyone
involved is because job turnover and
employee turnover is very expensive yeah
it hurts the cohesion of teams and
companies when you have to train someone
somebody has to do the training they
have to take their time to do the
training you have all the paperwork
that's necessary and then if someone
stays on for awhile and leaves that can
be costly for the organization as well
in terms of unemployment compensation or
severance packages you have severance
packages going through the process of
finding a new person to replace them
right so so companies really don't like
this process they don't like firing
people they don't like laying off people
and they want to find someone that's
gonna fit well in the position and lasts
for a long time and someone also is
gonna represent the brand well right
that we've mentioned this before so this
ties into what we come back to again and
again which is long-term thinking it's
the same as in the real estate industry
it's better to go through a lengthy
process choosing the right tenant because once
they're living in your house you're
stuck with them it's very difficult to
get them out it's the same thing with
hiring an employee recruiters and HR
managers need to invest a lot of time
into the search to make sure the person
they bring in is a good fit otherwise
it's not just a waste of time but it's
extremely costly to get that person off
of a team and out of the company yeah
exactly and and the main piece of advice
that I can give to employers is to
understand this and remember this
there's a huge difference between a
person who can give a good interview
and a person who will be a good
long-term employee but they may be the
same person but it's actually unlikely
that they're the same person and so how
can you use 30 or 60 minute interview to
discover the real nature of someone part
of that answer is having a referral
based hiring program as much as possible
you want to have the reference of a
trusted source be the source of all of
your hiring leads and not someone who is
completely off the street right someone
who is completely unknown which is why
we've mentioned in the past the
importance of networking yeah
the importance of doing well and
thinking that you're always being
watched because the best hires are the
ones that come with a personal
recommendation the goal of any of these
interviews should be to have a
pre-screening plan meaning before the
interview even starts before the person
can even get into the interview they've
met certain hurdles they have a personal
recommendation they have a job history a
certain education history and then the
goal of the interview should really be
to confirm what you've already been told
about the person to really to uncover
their hidden character right who are
they
yeah yeah you think about the further
the person's day-to-day job is from the
skills necessary to do well in an
interview in a way the less their
performance during the interview matters
now there's some careers where what
you're doing is very similar to a job
interview a lot of direct sales a lot of
making presentations in an interview
you're selling yourself if you're going
to be doing a lot of selling of a
product or service you should be able to
perform well in an interview but there's
a lot of careers out there where your
job day-to-day is very different than
the skills in an interview and in those
cases you could have somebody who would
be excellent in the position but
struggles in the interview and so when
you have somebody that you
that knows your industry knows your
company culture and says hey I know this
person I've worked with them for a long
time they'd be a great fit that can mean
the world to know that yeah one of the
big problems that I've seen in companies
is that the director of hiring whoever
it is maybe Human Resources the culture
is one where the candidates are selected
based on the ability of the hiring
manager to justify that they hired that
person for example what I mean as hiring
managers often think if this person
turns out to be terrible will I be able
to defend my decision to hire them hmm
and often that leads to two people with
checkboxes and not necessarily the best
candidate for the job and so my advice
to employers is you need to have the
people who are closest to the work be
heavily involved in the decision making
process on who gets hired you need to be
able to take risks on people who may not
fit the mold exactly could do a good job
because if someone has a perfect resume
and a perfect interview and perfect
references there's probably something
wrong you know we're all human yeah we
all make mistakes yeah something seems
too could be to be true it probably is
yeah there should definitely be
something in the the negative column
otherwise you've probably haven't done
enough research or these references
aren't accurate but I love what you said
there that alludes to a couple ideas one
is having multiple people involved in
the interview process not just one
manager one HR director but also like
you said somebody who will be working
alongside them or very close to them
because that person will know the
culture and the team that they'll be
joining so the HR managers particularly
for large companies has very little
understanding of the sub cultures that
exist in all the various departments or
even the type of work that's being done
in all the different positions within
the
company and so you need the HR manager
because of their experience conducting
interviews their expertise their ability
to filter out candidates but in addition
to that you need somebody who's aware of
the situation this person will be
plugging into because they can better
recognize
potential red flags or potential
positives of where this person can
really fill a missing need or contribute
to something that's currently lacking
you know one of the worst-case scenarios
for an employer is to spend three or six
months or longer looking for someone
hire them and then within three months
or so that person leaves mm-hmm
or needs to be terminated yeah that's a
horrible situation now you've basically
spent a year and you're in the exact
same place that you were when you first
started looking for someone right so
another thing that you can do is in the
job interview actually be honest about
the position talk about the benefits but
also the challenges yeah say things that
are true in order to deter people from
seeking the position who will not last
yeah don't paint this rosy picture about
the job and lie about what it's actually
going to take to do the job and then
when the person finally gets there and
they start doing the job and they
realize they've been lied to and it's
not the situation they were told and
then they leave well guess what that's
your fault that's your fault as the
hiring manager or the HR person you
caused this situation because you you
weren't honest about the the benefits
and the challenges of the job some of
the other things to think about as a
hiring manager is is if you type in the
top 20 questions asked in a job
interview just avoid all of those
questions don't ask any of those
questions what you need to do is get to
the heart of a person's passion you need
to ask them questions that they can't
fake for example tell me about your
passions what types of activities bring
you joy and watch the way they answer
are they happy are they smiling on a
passion
about the answer or they sort of
searching for something
does it look scripted yeah another
example what have you learned in the
past six months and what are your
sources of ongoing learning you could
simply ask them what do you know about
our company about our products and
services if someone comes in a job
interview and they know nothing about
your company it's not a good sign
it just means probably they're just
looking for any job and they don't
particularly care about your
organization yeah now if you have no
information about your company on the
internet or out there and then that's
one thing but if you have resources that
are available that are easily searchable
then that's a red flag yeah one
revealing question two can be what's
something you could see that our company
needs to improve because obviously on
your website or on your social media
presence you're not sharing your
weaknesses you're not highlighting some
of the issues and flaws you have you're
just painting a rosy picture and so if
all the candidate has done is just
memorized a few clips from your website
and has a little thing they can can
reiterate it doesn't show that they've
really analyzed much but if they can say
well I can see you can improve in this
area it shows that they have some
critical thinking and that they can
bring some value yeah open-ended
questions for example what problems do
you see in Morocco can you suggest any
solutions to these problems or how about
tell me about a business idea that you
have or what is the your definition of
good customer service can you give me an
example of a company that provides good
customer service or bad customer service
describe your experience yeah don't ask
yes and no questions don't ask questions
that can be answered with one word
another one of my favorite questions is
give me an example of a moral dilemma
that you had recently and you weren't
really sure
what to do for example what if you
caught a friend at work stealing from
the company this is not a
black-and-white answer it's not an easy
question right but if you ask them you
can see their thought process right how
do they work through issues work through
problems mm-hmm now one of the things we
often talk about as small business
owners is making sure we're filtering
well before we contact a potential
client a lead because we don't want to
waste our time we'd rather spend more
money in the filtering process so that
the final product the final result at
the end of that funnel is a very good
fit and there's a high conversion rate
for the time we spend connecting with
those people because our time is
extremely valuable
so for recruiters and HR managers the
search process is very costly but the
bulk of the time and energy goes into
the actual interviews scheduling it and
conducting those interviews especially
if you've got high-end executives that
you're interviewing you have to have a
panel of people that are very important
in the company spending their time
talking to strangers all day so you want
to make sure that the strangers that
you're talking to are very very likely
to be good hires so you need to work on
that filtering process now one of the
things we've talked about is making it
difficult putting hurdles just like we
talked about with starting a business
you want your business to be defensible
you don't want it to be something that's
simple because it gives you an advantage
it provides a deterrent for others to
enter the industry if you just make it
simple submit your CV and send it to
here you're gonna get thousands of
responses whereas if you even add a few
small steps to that you know you must
include this attach this we need your
photo we need a scanned version of your
your national identity card or you have
to do this health exam or you have to
answer these math questions or you have
to submit 500 word report on why you
think you're good
candidate anything like that is gonna
weed out the masses basically just a
filtering process just if you're not
willing to go through this half an hour
of effort you're probably not going to
be a good fit anyway it's exactly the
same principle that I applied to the
entrepreneurs Club of Casablanca, I only
want serious people in the room people
who are committed to starting a business
whether as a real entrepreneur, auto
entrepreneur I don't want a bunch of
people in the room who are not committed
who are not serious and that's why I
have put several hurdles in the path
originally just filling out one form
with 60 people and then filling out an
additional questionnaire we're down to
25 people and now we're in a whatsapp
group and there's going to be official
meetings at a place on a date and a time
and I'm expecting of those 25 maybe 15
but that's fine I only want serious
people there I know that if we start
with 15 we're gonna have a quality group
and then we'll grow that group through
references mm-hmm through personal
endorsements among club members and
we'll get to the point where I have to
close the club yeah there won't be any
more space this same principle you
should apply to job interviews peoples
you have to overcome several hurdles in
order to get an actual in-person
interview I'm not talking about brain
surgery I'm talking about administrative
things or a demonstration of your
discipline and your skill in some form
whether it's writing a report or filling
out an online questionnaire doing
something as simple as getting health
and medical checkup I would bet you that
if you had a hundred people applying for
a job and you said send me your medical
checkup with the stamp from a doctor you
would get maybe 25% conversion
mm-hmm and right there you've whittled
down and saved a whole bunch of time
because if you don't have the ability to
eat or the willingness to get a health
check before working in a company then
you're probably not going to be the
right person to hire and you probably
not gonna last very long yeah especially
in Morocco because you don't even
actually have to see a doctor to get one
of those one last tip for recruiters
related to the fact that some people
don't perform well in an interview maybe
an excellent employee is to try to make
people feel comfortable to try to put
people in a position where they're being
themselves around you it can be very
intimidating to come into a room with
three older professionals to be all
dressed up and to have a lot riding on
it to really need a job
it can be very intimidating and it can
be a brand new experience for young
people and so to just you know smile
crack a joke offer them a drink ask them
some simple questions to kind of get
them speaking you know not to start off
with something too hard so that they can
relax because then you're gonna get a
better perception of who this person
really is you don't want to have them up
on a stage under the spotlight unless
that's what their job will require if
that's what they're going to be doing in
the day to day work then it makes sense
but for a lot of careers it doesn't now
this week we focused on tactics for the
job interview for those who are hiring
for those who are looking for a new
employee next week in part two we're
going to talk about those who are
searching for a job how do you nail the
interview how do you make a good
impression and how do you have people
impressed with you and want to hire you
you've been listening to the Business
in Morocco Podcast my name is Ryan Kirk
here with my co-host Ryan Maimone, if you
enjoyed this episode be sure to
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podcast fill out the form on morocco
podcast.com or email us at Ryan@moroccopodcastcom and we'll give you
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is lovely day by Bill Withers used under
Creative Commons and we hope you'll have
a lovely day doing business in Morocco
we'll see you next time

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