Episode 56 Transcript

Hi this is Ezzoubeir from International
Morocco, today I'll be talking with Ryan
Maimone and Ryan Maimone is an American
business consultant so welcome thank you
unless you give us background about you
so I've been working in supply chain
logistics ecommerce business consulting
for about 15 years mostly in the United
States I lived in California Virginia
near Washington DC in 2017 my family
moved to France we did some research on
business there practiced our French a
little bit after a while we realized
that France is not the place we wanted
to start a business it's not where I
wanted to run my online business so we
looked around the region at various
places that were friendly to business
that spoke French and English and we
decided on Morocco and we've been living
here for about two years so let's begin
by drawing a picture someone about this
GDP last year was nineteen billion
dollars GDP the gross domestic product
which is the market's bad for all goods
and services in a specific time period
and GDP per capita which is the GDP
divided on the population is about
$3,400 marques population is 35 million
the economy is comprised of three main
sectors the service sector which
contributes the economy by 15% and
industry sector which contributes by 25%
of the agricultural sector had
contributes by 12% the growth rate in
Morocco was about two point 66 percent
last year and is expected to increase to
3 point 69 this year and to 4.14 next
year the World Bank explains the nice
overview about maracas economy that this
growth is because there is an increase
in the secondary interest
cities and you know Barack is expecting
a large level of foreign direct
investments especially in the automotive
industry the inflation rates is about
2021 and 2024 to 2 percent unemployment
has decreased very slowly from 9.7 in
2014 to 9.2 this year by looking at the
economic situation you know the
situations note that at least not as
sleek as a lot of people's Moroccan say
and you know like I said I have a lot of
expense in my circle of contacts and
they're all very militaristic about the
situation or the future of Morocco in
terms of economy so why do you think
Moroccan you know are not that happy
about the future or not optimistic about
the future I think they might not be
optimistic because it can be hard to get
a job here it can also be hard to start
a business but what I will tell people
is that their difficulties all around
the world if you go to the United States
for example you may find it easier to
get a job but the cost of living is
dramatically higher so you may hear
about friends or relatives that have
jobs in the United States or in Europe
and they're getting salaries that in
Morocco would be you'd be very rich the
problem with that analysis is that the
cost of living there is dramatically
higher it's not saying that missus rates
me right there there are two ways of
getting rich either you make a lot of
money or you spend a very little about
money so you could actually save more
money by having a reasonable salary in
Morocco with a very
cost of living versus a higher salary in
the United States I have friends in
California who made over $100,000 per
year but they don't save any money in
fact they go into debt they don't own a
home they don't own an apartment because
the cost of living is so high so when
you're thinking about the future who
think about opportunities for starting a
business here in Rock or the fact that
the cost of labor is relatively low the
cost of living is relatively low even
with the difficulties regulations and
employment and restrictions on finance
for example payments restrictions on the
currency those are unique problems to
Morocco but there are problems
everywhere in fact on the business in
Morocco podcast we interviewed Karim
jinan who worked in France for almost 10
years I've seen that interview right and
he thought about starting a business
there but he realized that there's more
opportunity here one of the great
advantages that you can have to starting
a business here in Morocco and the
reason that I'm optimistic is that you
can look around the world and you can
see the type of business that that have
succeeded in the United States in Asia
in Europe and you can bring those ideas
here to Morocco and you can start them
because they don't exist yet yeah ok so
I'm going to mention a number of
obstacles to economic growth and I'm
like you to tell me which ones are more
relevant to the situation problem so you
have the infrastructure God you have
human capital inadequacies primary
product dependency sales captain that's
when the gross natural
the national savings are not enough for
investment capital flight corruption
labor migration and brain drain so I
think the number one problem by far is
brain drain
if Moroccans who are highly educated and
skilled and motivated continue to leave
Morocco and go to places like Europe and
Asia and the United States then that
will have a negative impact on the hopes
and aspirations and economic growth here
in Morocco so I think that's probably
the number one problem that needs to be
addressed and when you ask these people
why do they leave it's because they
think it's a better situation in these
other places there's more opportunity
maybe it's because there's less
corruption or there's more financing
available overseas or the economies are
more stable or it's easier to start a
business it's easier to hire people and
fire people I'll give you a a great
example of a big difference between the
state that I came from Virginia and
Morocco Virginia's unemployment rate is
below four percent and there's something
in Virginia called the right to work
meaning an employee can leave a job at
any time for any reason and not give any
notice and a company can do the same
thing meaning they don't need a reason
they can just lay you off and tell you
you're fired and you can go and get your
state and federal unemployment but
you're no longer employee and you can be
given your notice that day and the
effect of this is people may think oh
that's bad for employees right you can
just be fired at any time well what
people don't realize is that
if companies know that if they hire
someone and if it doesn't work out
they're not the right type of person
they don't have the right type of skills
they don't have the right attitude they
don't have the right work ethic if the
company knows that they can fire them
then they're more likely to hire and as
results you mentioned in Morocco the
unemployment rate is 9% well Virginia is
3% and part of the reason is because
companies are willing to take risks and
hire people that that's that's
definitely easier because they know that
they can get rid of them I have many
clients here Morocco who tell me that
they are terrified of hiring the wrong
person yes because they know that if
there's a problem that he gets sued they
can have problems getting rid of that
employee they have to pay them even when
they're not there when they're not
working so as a result people who who
don't have good references or maybe they
don't have a good relationship with the
owner of the company or the manager they
don't get hired and that's why I Morocco
has this reputation for corruption in
not only the hiring process but in
contracts with subcontractors it's
because people will only do business
with people they know or they only hire
somebody who is a family member or a
friend a personal recommendation and
that has a negative impact on the
perception of young people doing
business in Raqqa or staying in Morocco
company's correct this is this really
interesting so let's let's go to
immigration we talked briefly about
immigration and brain drain so I'm going
to to tell you this I'm not sure if you
if you have heard about it and it's a
survey done by Twitter recruits calm in
2018 2018 and it says that 91% of
Moroccan ba
halters want to immigrate another set of
facts were mentioned whether the famous
Moroccan content creators stop Africa
known as we cannot Suriname but he
reveals some shocking facts and figures
about the brain drain in Morocco and
every Jew is said that around 600
Moroccan engineers go to Europe and
North America and that is equivalent of
the graduates of for engineering schools
knowing that in Morocco we only have 13
engineering schools he also mentioned
another study that was done in France
and it says that over 6,000 medical
doctors in France are Moroccans and in
Morocco in the public sector we only had
3,000 medical factories so what do you
think it should happen in order to stop
this well I think that some of the
principles that the government is
applied to places like Casa financing
right it's right over here near my
office the new Casablanca finest city
there are other economic free zones for
some of these auto manufacturers and
assembly places where they get
preferential treatment when it comes to
taxes hiring foreign employees
regulations they should take those
principles and they should just apply
them to the economy as a whole
instead of picking winners and losers
instead of picking certain companies and
certain industries and certain places
that will benefit from lower taxes and
lower regulations they should just
change it for the whole economy and make
the whole economy a more attractive
place to do business when the rules are
not the same for everyone there is a
perception that it's not fair fair it's
it's really no if I know a special
person in the government or I know a
special person in a company then I would
benefit from that relationship and his
son of fair playing field
I have claims who tell me that they
provide services for big companies and
what they tell me is that there's
actually only a few number of companies
that have a transparent system of buying
products and services and that other
companies it's corrupt meaning they get
their request for a proposal they review
all the request for proposal and then
they go to their cousin or their friend
and they tell them to create a company
produce a bid for that project and go
right under all the other bids but with
the same proposal and when things like
that happen it doesn't take long for
these engineers that you mentioned to
think well why would I start a company
in Morocco if it's not going to be fair
if I'm going to have to pay a lot of
taxes and it's not going to be fair in
terms of the the contracts to government
or the contracts to big companies I
might as well move to a place that has a
better rule of law and more fairness
okay so okay so let's talk now about
free trade and specialization so of free
trade the concept of retail trade came
about through the 18th century British
philosopher or Irish or Scottish I'm not
sure he's
something like you know a good household
master is the one that would produce at
home which would be expensive to buy
from elsewhere and do the opposite buy
from elsewhere what would be expensive
to produce your tongue and this leads us
to a specialization and that means that
countries will do better if they
specialize in certain industries where
they have comparative advantage so my
question for you Ryan is if Morocco were
to specialize is something what would it
be something that is currently
disregarded in Morocco and it would
probably give you know it represents an
opportunity for economic growth and
employment opportunities so this is a
very interesting question actually have
a lot to say on the topic of trade I've
been studying supply chain and just for
a long time I think even two months ago
my answer would have been slightly
different because of the recent
coronavirus 19 outbreak in China and now
it's going all around the world and two
months ago I would have said the system
is working fine you have certain things
produced in certain countries whether
it's raw goods or input goods that are
shipped overseas and then the final
assembly is done for example Renault
imports parts here to Morocco and then
they assemble the cars here and then
they sell them here and then ship them
around the world however because of this
coronavirus outbreak I think what you're
going to see in the next two months is
the vulnerabilities of a global system
that is reliant upon just-in-time
logistics when you have all these
countries specializing in different
and everyone becomes dependent on
everyone else when there's a disruption
in the chain in one area for example
China there are second third or effects
that go to South Korea Japan now we're
seeing impacts in Germany in France and
it's going to have a ripple effect all
the way through to the consumption of
the final good and so I think what
you're going to see in the next one to
three months is you're going to see
ruptures of stock you're gonna see
shortages you're going to see things
completely sold out and this
just-in-time global interconnectedness
of supply chain is going to cause a lot
of problems and so when you ask me a
question what should maraca specialize
in well my answer is this is baloney
well the fact that Morocco has sort of
been very measured in its
internationalization and globalization
in terms of becoming reliant on imports
and allowing the currency to floats and
being very interconnected with the rest
of the world I think what you're
actually going to see is that Morocco is
going to weather the storm so to speak
Morocco is going to absorb the impacts
of this virus much better than many
other countries for several reasons one
twice a year Morocco shuts down during
Ramadan and August essentially things
come to a standstill are used to that so
I think if this happens because of the
virus I think Morocco is actually going
to deal with it better than other
countries like in Europe or in the
United States especially it's coming
when Ramadan is
right so it'll be natural to just kind
of shut things down secondly Morocco is
not an economy with just-in-time
logistics there are many countries in
which they receive their stock of goods
every week or two weeks and they sell
out completely and they need to be
replenished this is a very good example
in China the relationship between China
and Japan for example Toyota developed a
system where the parts for their
assembly of vehicles would arrive on one
day and they would use those parts
within the next 48 to 72 hours and they
would need to be replaced and the reason
you do this is because inventory has a
cost and so if you can reduce the amount
of inventory you're holding across the
supply chain you reduce you reduce your
overall costs and you increase your
profits however if there's a direct
disruption in the supply chain and that
throws the whole system out of Morocco
is going to be stronger during a time
with supply chain disruption because it
does not rely on weekly supplies or
monthly supplies for example I'm sure
every one of our listeners knows this
when you go to Carrefour or marjaan you
will see a certain product and you'll
see a very large supply and maybe a
month later there will be any it's
because of the supply chain in Morocco
many people who go overseas they'll buy
a very large quantity of something and
they'll import it into Morocco and
they'll sell it until it's gone so as a
result the stocks in Morocco
I think are much higher for certain
kinds of items additionally the the
basics are produced here Morocco fruits
vegetables nuts seeds milk a lot of the
very essential elements of life are
produced here Morocco and as a result
the global supply chain is not going to
have a negative impact on that as
opposed to other countries that don't
produce a lot of their goods and
services they import everything for
example Japan and imports a lot of stuff
it doesn't produce as much of its basic
necessities and it's going to have a
very hard time if the supply chains
continue to be destructed now to answer
your question what should Rocco
specialize in I have a very specific
answer for this as many of your
listeners may know the United States is
relied on China for a very long time for
a lot of goods and there is a trade
dispute between the United States and
China right now
however Morocco has a trade agreement
with the United States yes I was so my
advice and my thoughts on this issue
what should Morocco specialize in the
answer is to look at the disagreements
between the United States and China find
the products that have had tariffs
imposed on them meaning the goods that
were once exported from China to the
United States but now are much more
expensive because of tariffs
seen from that list of goods what can be
produced in Morocco and falls under the
free trade agreement that is what I've
okay so that that's interesting that you
brought it up because I was going to ask
you a question like that so I'm sure
you've heard that Morocco is now
reviewing its free trade agreements with
Turkey and the Minister of Industry says
that's because it's creating trade
deficit my question for you is do you
think it would be more beneficial to
stop the agreement to walk out of it or
to do something in order to balance the
deficit so I'm not too familiar with the
actual agreement between Morocco and
Turkey but I will say this when you have
a treat free trade agreement like this
between Morocco and Turkey the reason
that there are Goods coming in from
Turkey to Morocco is because there's
demand people want to buy them whether
it's clothing or furniture or mattresses
or other kinds of goods for some reason
Turkey can produce those at a lower
price than Morocco or other places and
so Amir in there and people want them
they appreciate the cloud the quality
versus the price now for my own mindset
I don't understand why Morocco can't
produce clothing and furniture at a
competitive rate versus Turkey for me it
seems like there's there's no reason
that Morocco can't produce the same
quality for their a lower price because
you don't have the shipping costs from
Turkey to in Raqqa I don't know whether
it has to do with taxes or regulations
or what it has to do with well my
philosophical position is this if it's
fair if it's a fair playing field
yeah then there should be exchange of
goods and services this is what's mainly
happening right now between
United States and China there's a lot of
fake news out there in terms of what the
actually disagreement is but this is
what it's about a lot of goods for the
history of the trade agreement with
China have come into the United States
with little or no tax at all but when
American companies try to export things
to the entrance of China they are either
taxed heavily or they're disrupted in
terms of entry into the country or the
intellectual property is stolen we're
still talking about the free trade
agreements between Rothman and Turkey
and recently the Minister of Industry
said that he talks about specifically
about BIM and he said that whatever BIM
goes 60 Mershon closed down I think he
formulated as a reason for for reviewing
that free trade agreement do you think
that's fair ah no I don't think it's
fair I don't think it makes sense and
I'm a bit confused by this statement
from the minister and and the problems
that people haven't been and the reason
that I say that as I go into him and I
see the same products in Carrefour or
Marjan or these hanuta that are around
and I did read the the reply from from
them saying that they buy roughly 85
percent of their products from Moroccan
producers and that makes sense to me
because when I go into BIM I see
Moroccan products and they said they
only import about 15% of their products
from Turkey I think what you might be
having here is a little bit of unfair
competition I don't know whether there
are been competitors that are lobbying
the government
because they don't like the competition
yeah if that's the case then that's the
definition of corruption so a lot of
people saying that's my social media
saying that the real reason why you know
Morocco is reviewing since free trade
agreements with turkeys because major
companies in Morocco are being hurt by
that competition and they cite Marja
andesite Aseema or whatever so you're
saying that you know this kind of
interventionists measures by the
government to protect moroccan companies
is crushing I think it's the definition
of corruption and what Moroccan
consumers need to understand is that
when big moroccan companies lobbied the
government to hurt their competition the
person who's actually getting hurt is
the consumer because then offers
products and services at a lower price
and people buy them from them and not
from the competition and if bin gets
shut down what it means is that you're
gonna have to pay more for everything
that you want to buy and you'll have a
lower quality of life you have a lower
purchasing power the second third order
effects of this is the global community
the investment community is looking at
the way that Morocco handles companies
like that when they decide am I going to
invest in Morocco am I going to build a
company there am I going to move my
Africa headquarters to Morocco am I
going to invest in plants and equipment
and distribution they do risk analysis
and if the way that Morocco handles BIM
it's not going to just impact them it's
going to impact the investment decisions
of many other companies because any
smart CEO is not going to build a large
company in Morocco if
des they're very successful their
competition in Morocco is going to go to
the government and the rockin government
is going to shut them down this is the
reason that there may not be as much
economic growth in Morocco as there
could be because of the appearance of
corruption and unfair competition and
bring you value to the place where you
maracas on the other hand that is not a
value judgement is a description of the
reality in Raqqa days of prevalence a
narrative that says why would I waste my
time and energy and health for an
employer and is going to take all the
profits and I'm going to be left on the
meager salary or retirement can you give
us an idea about how Americans see work
so we can understand it truly yeah let's
start with that
so the cultures the work cultures in
Morocco in the United States are very
different the United States as was known
as a meritocracy meaning the American
Dream is described as it doesn't matter
where you were born it doesn't matter
what your religion is your race your and
your gender your ethnicity is a matter
where you grew up where you went to
school who your parents were there's no
concept of royalty there's no concept of
status right family name doesn't mean
anything that the two best examples are
Steve Jobs and Jeff Bezos they were both
orphans they were both adopted to become
some of the most wealthy people ever to
found Apple and Amazon two of the most
successful companies that have ever
existed and they came from a status of
an important yeah so in the United
States there's this idea that if I work
hard if I'm disciplined if I get
educated if I'm reliable if I produce
value consistently I can succeed there
is an intrinsic motivation to do well to
perform because in a lot of ways my
density is linked to what I do in my
work whereas here in Morocco I think the
identity is more linked to who is my
family who are my friends yeah where do
I live yeah there's more of a social
identity in the United States many
people move away from their families
they lived they moved to a new city
where they don't know anyone and that's
where they start their life and they
work in a company and they move up and
they know the life for themselves there
because your identity is more based on
what you do and where you work than it
is on who your family is and where you
come from I think that's one of the big
differences and to me that actually
makes me optimistic about Morocco
because of what you describe this
mentality why would I go work for a
company that's going to pay me under the
table on the black market that's going
to pay me in cash that is never going to
give me a promotion or give me
opportunities to move up in the world
that's going to take advantage of me and
then just fire me or let me go when it's
not right for them anymore well that's a
valid concern but for me it's an
opportunity so because if I can produce
a company that treats employees well
that respects them that gives them
responsibility and opportunity then I
will have the best employees available
in Morocco and I will have a competitive
advantage over everybody else to me the
big thing that's missing in Rocco is
excellent customer service and it's also
an opportunity to you know to encourage
Americans to create their own businesses
in or
so yes there is this program that was
launched recently it's called in
Capernaum in talati and it's Arabic for
Sparta program it was inaugurated by the
king and there is a committee that was
appointed by the king to oversee an
amount of 800 million dollars has been
allocated to this program and objective
is to encourage young people to invest
and sorry to to become entrepreneurs you
know I think it's unfair to judge
something before it starts but there has
been a lot of similar programs is that
nineties they have all failed for me
they haven't been you know obviously
then we've been able to address the
really problems some of which we have
talked about in this interview so for
you what do you think is what do you
think should happen in order for these
kind of programs to be successful well I
think the program has good intentions
meaning they want to make capital more
available to startup companies they want
to encourage investment they want to
encourage entrepreneurship and startups
so I think there are good intentions
however I think that something like the
auto entrepreneur program who is going
to have a far more impact than you know
this financing program that you
mentioned from the king and the reason
is because it's a baseline structural
system that allows everyone to compete
on the same level and all of the rules
apply to everyone the same way an auto
entrepreneur program very low taxes very
easy to get started you can you're not
subject to the day they are you
in three different categories of
industries you can issues factors that
that companies can deduct on their taxes
there are many advantages and they apply
to everyone and it's stable it's
reliable we talk about programs that you
mentioned the reason it's necessary is
because the system is failing in a
different way meaning it's expensive to
start a company
the ways that companies are funded are
not adequate meaning let's say I am
producing I want to do a start-up a
technology startup here Morocco for one
reason or another the investors that are
here in Morocco they will not give their
money to start those companies why why
would they give the money to start those
new terms you have to enter that
question and if you can solve that
question you're going to have a much
better long-term solution than just
providing finances to new companies that
the rest of the investing community has
said no to you're saying I'm saying how
do you think the government should
encourage to investors to invest in high
tech because you know we have talked
about it before and investors that a lot
of investors out there that would give
you money
any amount she wants but you just need
to invest it in traditional kind of
business models cafes you know all sorts
of stuff that that everyone does
restaurants and what do you think should
happen in order for these investors to
guarantees because after all Thai Tech
is not an important sector in Morocco at
least today and investors you know these
are people that have worked hard for
their money and you want to see their
money you know being used in the right
way and get return from it if you want
to encourage the technology sector in
Morocco you make it very easy to hire
and fire employees meaning Moroccans or
foreigners you make a bit of easy to set
up a company meaning I don't have to
hire fiduciary make it as easy as sign
up for the auto entrepreneur program you
may get apply to all of raqqa the entire
kingdom not just this little piece of
territory here in this little city here
the entire country right you said the
taxes at a reasonable rate like 10% for
10 years or 20 years this is what
they've done a new bomber I have
offended him by the set of a company it
took him two hours he said of the
company he got a business license he can
now buy property rent property he could
now hire people and he did it in one
Wow and the taxes were set at a very low
rate for 10 years and there's an option
to extend it for 10 more years after
that and if you know anything about
Dubai United Arab Emirates there are a
lot of companies who invested a lot of
money in bringing their their companies
to those countries because of the
employment and the tax regulations I
have a link a contact I forgot his name
he's a business consultant
says a lot of people ask me on social
media I received a lot of questions from
people on social media and they all
asked me how should they how should we
get their financing and he said he
looked at the camera and said it's not
about the financing it's about the
projects so you know people think about
it as an opportunity for money and I
rather not go on his press and it cites
an Emirati economist who says that we
the one of the things that we have to do
in order to guarantee that this is not
going to be like those and successful
experiences is that we have to change
the mentality financing is not money
given to people and then they would
think about something to do so so they
need to have a projects a viable
business idea before thinking about ways
and to financing now my question for you
is in its embryonic state does startup
need money the most important thing is
customers it's not money I think what
you're going to see from these programs
for financing for startups is that many
of those companies are just going to
fail because if you have the money in
the beginning then you're probably not
focusing on the right thing which is
customer acquisition customer
satisfaction it's a relatively new
phenomenon this idea of financing I need
you know startups and venture capital
and and raising all of this money to
build out about things yeah
most companies historically they've been
self financed bootstraps meaning I'm
worse I saved up money I start this
company in my free time on nights and
weekends I build it up and when it's
sustainable when it has some traction
then I quit my job and I start
working on that company full-time and
that's usually the way that it's been
done historically or I get friends and
family members to invest in the project
but the way that you get people to
invest is to show them some kind of
traction some kind of results and so you
know we talked about this the other
night at the entrepreneurs Club of
Casablanca how do I transition from my
full-time job to being an entrepreneur
and the answer is you talk to customers
and you find 10 true believers 10 ideal
customers that are willing to pay you
for your product or service and are very
very satisfied and you refine the
product and you refine the service and
you make it better and you satisfy those
customers you get their referrals and
their testimonies and their reviews and
you get their money right if they're
willing to pay you then you know you're
on the right track and so there are many
ways to finance a business but really
the best way is through customer
financing to finance a business through
customer money to provide that product
or service in the beginning in a way
that is incredibly valuable to the end
user and then building your company up
through that okay
another thing that is I think is really
important it's also based on my
experience in intrapreneurship which is
I'm convincing up to this point that the
business environment in Morocco is
extremely hostile to enterprise when you
are making your calls and people realize
that you are an entrepreneur and you
have just started they'll treat you way
worse than what they would have treated
you if you worked for an established
company what do you think should be done
in order to
- you mentioned a couple things what
you're describing is known as outbound
sales meaning you are cold calling or
you're knocking on doors trying to get
people who don't know you to buy from
you your product or service this is
difficult no matter who you are no
matter where you are in the world and if
you're an established brand yes it's
going to be easier if you are an unknown
it's going to be harder the solution
going forward is a couple of steps one
you need to offer something that's
unique uniquely valuable if you're a
brand new company and all you're doing
is offering something that's already
widely available in the market it's
going to be very very hard for you they
don't know you you have no brands and
you're offering something that they can
buy somebody somewhere else so that's
going to be very hard for you second you
need to develop a strategy to produce in
boundaries as opposed to going out and
asking people to buy your product or
service you create a reputation a brand
that people become aware of and then
they come to you to buy your product or
service now one of the best examples of
this is my my co-host on the podcast
right Kirk who has a LinkedIn following
he has a YouTube channel he has a blog
he's producing contact he has been
producing content for many years and he
shows the types of things that he's been
doing team retreats group trainings
habits for success and people have seen
his content and his videos and they're
contacting him to provide his product or
service this is what's known as inbound
marketing so if you are startup you need
to focus on two things how do I show the
world then I'm an expert in this product
or service and how do I show that that
what I am offering them
uniquely valuable and if you can do
those two things successfully then you
have a very good chance of winning in
the long run however if you can't prove
that you're unique or special and you
can't communicate the value of your
product or service then you're not going
to succeed and I think this is this is
it for our engine you have tackled a
number of issues we might talk about
them in depth next time sure it's been
very nice having you thank you very much
for your time it's my pleasure

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