Episode 7 Transcript

You're listening to the Business in Morocco Podcast the
podcast that discusses all things
business and all things Morocco. My name
is Ryan Maimone, I'm here with my co-host
Ryan Kirk and our goal is to share our
knowledge and experiences you in order
to help you gain wisdom skills and
habits that can help you succeed in
business and in life you can learn more
about us by going to our website moroccopodcast.com
alright let's get started with today's episode it's going to be a lovely day
welcome to episode 7 of the Business in
Morocco Podcast it's a beautiful day
here in Casablanca sunny skies 22
degrees Spring has definitely arrived
what's going on with you Ryan? well I'm
hanging in there
my wife is away in France this week so I
am juggling a lot we have three kids I'm
driving them to school picking them up
organizing what we're gonna eat we have
ordered pizza this week I'm doing dishes
I'm laying out their school clothes so
if I look a little extra tired it's
because I'm really missing my wife I'm
gonna be kissing her at the door
grateful for her return what about you?
how's the week been? it's going well
we're continued to put out these
podcasts so I'm spending quite a bit of
time on that as I mentioned in previous
episodes learning how to deal with
software and building our brand and
doing all the things necessary to
distribute the podcast is deep work so I
have been specifically assigning parts
of my day to do this work and as we
talked about a few weeks ago time
management you need to prioritize yeah
if everything's a priority then nothing
is a priority so I'm taking out specific
time to do the editing of the podcast
and now that I'm getting better at it
I'm understanding the software I'm
understanding how to post things to the
site it's moving out of deep work more
into flow State so, that's great, instead of having
to do the episodes in the beginning of
the day when I'm fresh and I'm a
creative power I can wait till the end
of the day to do the formatting of the
episodes and I'm learning efficiencies
so it's definitely been a learning
process but I feel like I'm over the
hill in terms of having to learn how to
do it and right now I'm just refining my
process to become more efficient which
is allowing me to focus my deep work
time on other subjects. you know this is
a great example for a lot of our
listeners that you're learning all these
new skills without taking a course
without paying for it without
going to school without taking time off
you have just found resources online and
just figured out stuff and you run into
problems you might google it you might
look for a youtube video about it you
might take a break and come back to it
later but you're learning this this new
skill and so we need to be continually
pushing outwards on our comfort zones
and adding to our toolbox so that we can
offer more value in the marketplace. all
right let's get into the topic of the
day which is what does it mean to be a
good leader we're going to talk a little
bit about the functions the
characteristics the behaviors habits and
methods and skills of a good leader. Ryan
you just gave a story about being a solo
leader at home with your wife away was
there anything specific that you found
yourself doing that you don't normally
do and made you be a leader of your
household in a different way yeah the
biggest thing that comes to mind is meal
prep so in my household my wife does 99%
of the cooking and I'm in charge of
cleanup so my wife makes amazing food we
eat much better when she's home than
when she's away and then after the meal
I do the dishes and manage the kids to
wipe down the table and help out but I
needed to do a lot more meal prep
because because she's not there and so I
recognized the the gap that she's left
but also to try to get the kids involved
so having my daughter come and how
getting the boys to set the table you
know just trying to think what are the
tasks that only I can do and what are
the tasks that I can pass on to my kids
because they're capable of it so I might
be the only one who's capable of using
the stove or doing something that's
potentially dangerous with a super sharp
knife however my daughter can be washing
or peeling my sons can be carrying
plates and setting things out so doing
some delegation doing some some
oversight and management has been a way
to apply these lessons at home that's a
perfect example of what a good leader
does you evaluated in the situation
you identified those tasks that you need
to be personally involved in you
identified the strengths and the
weaknesses of your children what they
were capable of doing you effectively
delegated and you provided oversight and
that is one of the aspects of a great
leader taking responsibility doing what
needs to get done
your wife is gone there are things that
need to be done you step up and do what
needs to be done at the right moment and
that's what a great leader does
they don't make excuses they don't blame
others they identify needs and they
delegate when necessary but they're
responsible for the overall
accomplishment of a task what do you
think are some of the characteristics
the values or morals or principles of a
good leader? one thing I have noticed
that has begun shifting globally but
it's still very it can still be very
culturally restricted is some people
have the view that my followers are my
subordinates, are there for me as the
leader as the boss and that's begun
really shifting to leaders recognizing
no I am actually there for them they are
not here at this company or at this
organization to serve me I as the leader
I'm here to serve them my definition of
success is to see the company and the
employees that are on my team looking
good and being successful if my team is
successful and we're achieving results
then I'm successful as a leader it
shifted from a very selfish perspective
to one that's more of a servant leader.
what about you what are you seeing? what
are your thoughts on this? well I think a
good manager is going to enable his or
her employees the good manager is going
to support the career development of
each employee and help them to improve
their skills and capabilities I think a
bad manager is somebody who's constantly
worried about
someone outshining them mm-hmm I've
heard it in the United States but also
here Morocco that people, managers will
not hire people that they fear will do a
better job than them and eventually take
their job, right and if you are a leader
in an organization this is a huge problem
and Facebook actually faced this
challenge early in their life and one of
the ways that they addressed it was
promotion criteria within Facebook a
large percentage of it was based on
whether or not you had adequately
trained someone to do your job hmm
so if there was no one to take over for
you you weren't getting promoted if you
had not adequately trained someone to do
your job and you had not shared your
knowledge and prepared people you
weren't getting promoted right and that
was a huge incentive to train your team
to build people up to hire excellent
people because that was the only way
that you yourself were going to move up
unfortunately in many companies today
you'll have managers who are defending
their territory who are engaged in power
politics yeah and that is a sign of a
bad manager or a bad leader right
feeling threatened another key aspect of
leadership is motivating your team a lot
of people like to use the carrot and
stick approach which is do this or
you're fired do this or I'll write you
up or on the other hand they say you'll
have an incentive you'll get a promotion
you get a bonus you get a salary
increase and they think these are really
the only two ways to motivate your
employees but there have been many
studies that show this is not the case
let's listen to this audio clip from Dan
Pink who talks about motivation, "and if
we really want high performance on those
definitional tasks of the 21st century
the solution is not to do more of the
wrong things to entice people with a
sweeter carrot or threaten them with a
sharper stick we need a whole new
approach the good news about all this is
scientists have been studying motivation
have given us this new approach it's an
approach built much more around
intrinsic motivation around the desire
to do things because they matter because
we'd like it because they're interesting
because they're part of something
important and to my mind that new
operating system for our businesses
revolves around three elements autonomy
mastery and purpose. autonomy the urge to
direct our own lives, mastery the desire
to get better and better at something
that matters, and purpose the yearning to
do what we do in the service of
something larger than ourselves these
are the building blocks of an entirely
new operating system for our businesses"
yeah that's so good who who wouldn't
want to work for a company that was
making space for these intrinsic
motivators to give people space to
figure out how to do the work that
they're doing that they feel like they
have room to to structure they have some
control over how their day goes to have
that the autonomy no one likes to be
micromanaged if you want to do something
of value you don't want it to be
explicitly instructed if you want to
create a great company you have to take
in this this information that these are
the way that great people will be
motivated so if you want to build a
great company you want to attract the
kind of people that will be motivated
intrinsically they'll be motivated by
autonomy by mastery and my purpose not
by a carrot or by a stick great leaders
need to make space for this they need to
be releasing they need to find the right
people and then give them autonomy now
you're gonna find employees that they
just want to be told exactly what to do
they just want a very tight job
description and they don't want to have
to think but that's not gonna create
great results that's not the type of
employees you want to hire you'd rather
build software to replace those kinds of
people mastery is something we've
talked about in one of the earlier
episodes that was about deep work where
we talked about the fact that it's
incredibly satisfying to push through
the challenging learning that goes on
when you're taking on a
new skill and you've talked about
personally experiencing this through
creating this podcast that at the
beginning it's very challenging it
demands all your focus to learn how to
edit and deal with this new software but
then over time you begin to experience
flow state because you're beginning to
enter into that that realm of mastery
and that's incredibly satisfying and can
give people that job satisfaction to
keep them and the purpose that really
reminds me of Simon Sinek and the Start
With Why book there's a great TED Talk
that he did we can put the link in the
show notes about starting with why and
that companies shouldn't just be focused
on the specific tasks or the specific
roles but how it contributes to
something important and meaningful and
people want we want our lives to matter
there's an intrinsic desire in us to to
have a purpose to have meaning and our
careers are a big part of what we do on
this earth in the limited time that we
have our career is a huge element of our
identity and what we contribute and
knowing that what we're doing is is
valuable makes a difference it has a
purpose beyond just a salary gives us a
tremendous amount of satisfaction
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now back to the show
yeah one person
I've learned a lot about leadership from
is my father and I don't mean just
around the house and kind of the way he
lived his life even his career and his
leadership in business he was an
executive in the steel industry and he
has a great story
and he started as a teenager working at
a steel factory as a laborer and then
worked his way all the way up to having
eight plants in Canada that he was
overseeing so yeah some really cool
career but one of the lessons I took
from him is that he invested in people
so when we're talking about does a
leaders see the people there to serve
him or her or does she see that she's
there to serve the people my dad really
invested in them and in the steel
industry they had all different workers
at different types of workers one of the
ways he would invest in them is through
training. all the management got to do
the 7 Habits of Highly Effective
People they got to do like a Dale
Carnegie How to Win Friends and
Influence People course so they were
being invested in and then even the
mechanics they were all sent to be
certified which was a huge asset for
their career not only did it allow them
to earn a higher salary but it gave them
a ton of job security and the ability to
even move to another company because of
this qualification but he invested in
people and that creates a lot of loyalty
because employees see you care about
them you're not just acting in your own
best interest you are investing in them
which is an investment in the company
yeah we heard that quote from
Dan Pink about motivation this idea that
intrinsic motivation is the sustainable
form of motivation it is the more
vigorous form of motivation as opposed
to the carrots of salary and bonuses and
the sticks of disciplinary action and/or
firing. for me one of the great
experiences I had in leadership was in
the military so I was in the United
States Marine Corps. there is a stigma
associated with the military in the
sense that you follow orders and
sometimes people think of the military
as a bunch of mind numbed robots that are
just following orders and not really
thinking just acting out of obedience
and while immediate obedience to orders
from superiors is true it's not really
the whole story the military relies on
creative decision makers at every level
and when you talk about autonomy mastery
and purpose in the military you spend
the first year simply being
indoctrinated in the purpose so the
values the history the characteristics
of the organization you are
indoctrinated so that the purpose of the
organization the mission of the
organization the goal is intrinsic it's
inside of you you understand it you
become a part of it and then you spend
the next six months to a year involved
in Mastery, your in education you're in
training you're becoming proficient in a
skill or a capability and so it's not
until a year or two after you've entered
the military that you're actually in a
unit taking orders so the military
builds you up with purpose and mastery
and then they put you in a unit where
they're going to require you to make
decisions to have some sort of autonomy
so these three levels of motivation are
definitely built into the
to the military there's this idea of
commander's intent where your boss will
give you an overall goal the intent of
the plan they assign you a part of that
plan and then you have to execute it but
your boss is not going to tell you how
to do it, right for example let's say
you're in a military unit and your boss
says move your unit from point A to
point B and secure this location
that's probably all you're gonna get
correct so how you do that whole thing
you as a leader are gonna have to figure
that out
yeah and that's an element of autonomy
so you've got the purpose you've got the
mastery you've got the autonomy which is
a great recipe for motivation you know
that's cool how does this apply to
business as a leader if you simply want
to make every decision in your
organization your organization is going
to be limited by your capacity yeah
you're you're a bottleneck a good leader
will set a vision and then as you said
about your father
enable his or her employees to
accomplish that vision without telling
them how mm-hmm you educate them you
train them you give them practice and
then you empower them to accomplish the
task yeah and and that's how you build a
great organization and that's how great
leaders operate yeah that's cool
thinking back to one leadership mistake
I was under I I joined a team where the
leader was someone who was younger than
me but also far less experienced than me
in that situation you know this can
happen where you have somebody in your
department somebody on your team who is
stronger than you in a skill set
somebody who struggles with confidence
they can feel threatened by that and
they can want to to squish that person
rather than empower that person in some
areas this leader empowered me in the
finance area they said okay why don't
you take charge of this you've got more
experience you're skilled in this and so
I was overseeing some financial things
but then in other areas they were
threatened by it by me and by my
experience and so what that does is it
first of all puts my capabilities on the
sidelines so there's things that could
benefit the team
I could make that are not being utilized
so the team loses its effectiveness but
it also makes me feel demotivated you
know I don't feel empowered I don't feel
like I'm able to give my full self to to
the team's goals if the leader desires
to be the most effective that they want
to produce results they've got to be
willing to put everybody's capacities
into play even if those capacities
outshine them yeah I've had mostly good
leaders in my lifetime especially in the
military but there was one organization
I work for that was dysfunctional the
leader would actively encourage
competition among his his managers which
led to conflict on the team and there
was one individual in particular who had
to be the source of all good ideas hmm
and if he wasn't the source of a good
idea then that idea was the enemy right
and it had to be crushed yeah whether or
not it was a good idea or could help
accomplish the mission yeah and the
thing about it is he was fairly
effective in that because what you've
learned is that if your idea was gonna
win the day it had to filter through him
first yeah so that he could present it
to the big boss yeah it really created a
lot of animosity and dysfunction
within the team and a lot of stress
ultimately the team fell apart the
mission fell apart and it was a result
of the dysfunction of these two
individuals the the big boss and then
one of his direct reports who was also
above me and the other thing that will
just kill an organization is pride if
the leader is a very proud person and is
always puffing themselves up and trying
to impress people it's going to lead to
destruction yeah and it did in one case
the big boss was talking to one of our
clients and made an offhanded comment
about a relationship to an
organization another company which led
to a huge fight about a conflict of
interest and there are two problems one
he never needed to mention this this
other organization and two it wasn't
even really true
he was only saying it to puff himself up
to make himself look good but what it
ended up doing was destroying the team
and the mission of the organization
which ultimately the contract was
cancelled yeah
and the job is lost and the team was
disbanded yeah I was laid off, wow all
because of the leader wanted to show
everyone how important he was right yeah
yeah ego is the enemy going back to what
you said about competition this has to
be used really delicately because
there's some benefits to competition
that can push people to excel it can
make people excited and we've seen in
organizations you know department versus
department competition and ultimately
everybody's working for the same company
they have the same mission but it can
create that inner team unity we're gonna
you know I just saw a company at City
Foot and it was the finance playing
another department they're playing the
engineering department you know in a
football match but even on more company
things you can see that the example I
would use is my son plays on a football
team and on Saturdays they play matches
against other clubs but during the week
they train and they scrimmage against
one another
now the coach wants those scrimmages to
be really competitive and sometimes the
way he referees or the way he makes
calls keep the score tight because he
wants the players to be really
competitive with one another during the
week because it pushes them to excel it
pushes them to play their best and to
really try hard
however he needs to be careful with that
because they can be really pissed off at
each other and one guy trips another and
they can be fighting when ultimately hey
guys let's remember Saturday is the
match we are actually on the same team
you're just wearing a gilet that's
gonna come off and we have the same
we're one team so a manager needs to
really use competition delicately to
bring out the best in his people but not
compromise team unity on the overall
mission I completely agree it comes down
to the purpose of the competition mm-hmm
whether there are boundaries for this
particular big boss his purpose of
competition was to keep his subordinates
fighting each other so that they weren't
fighting him
yeah that's dysfunctional and there were
no boundaries it's as though he enjoyed
the drama of conflict among his team
yeah he was just dysfunctional in his
it's unfortunate yeah because the the
mission of our company was a very good
one and ultimately it was killed due to
pride Wow
you've been listening to the
Business and Morocco Podcast my name is
Ryan Kirk here with my co-host Ryan
Maimone. if you enjoyed this episode be
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in Morocco we'll see you next time

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